Hi. Just getting going as a freelance web developer, but I'm quite experienced.. been contracting for years. I quoted for an e-commerce solution, and the prospect has come back saying I'm about twice the price that he wanted to pay.

His site currently turns over £10k/yr by people phoning through orders
He wants credit card and paypal integration
He seems to think that, as he already has a site, most of the work is done! The site is pretty poor - product lists loading in frames and product details in pop-up windows.

I quoted to include all legals - privacy T&Cs etc, improvement to existing design, e-commerce integration.

I quoted £2,400 + hosting. He wants to pay £1,200.

He claims to have a quote for £1,200. I don't do OS-Commerce installs or similar. They're over-complex and buggy.

So. Do I walk away? I could do with the work, though I have other prospects. It will never be a site I really want to add to my portfolio as the look and feel is pretty bad and he doesn't want a complete redesign.

I could probably go in cheaper, but not as low as he wants. I could remove PayPal, and perhaps SSL certificates (credit cards are input over SSL on payment provider site - but contact email address should really be sent secured).

Maybe I should steer clear of small businesses. I get the impression they never want to pay much.

Thoughts? Experiences? Am I over expensive?

Simply say no then.

If a client is trying to barter before the job is even begun just imagen the hasstle you will get on invoicing.

I have been working in a small team on a new website with OS Commerce. We have had to outsource various bits to a specialist in that field of server side programing etc we are paying him alone something like £1000.000 + VAT just for his services. He is the bees knees and we know he will all be perfect when complete.

Isn't there various fees dotted along the lines to do with SSL certificates etc aswell I take it that would all be additional to the amount you quoted.

£1,200 is what a reputable company 1 day ish worth of time maybe a day + half to do all that I don't think so.

I think the guy is trying to pull a fast-one on you. If ita job to do without – do without it!

Just my 2p worth (in my limited knowledge).

Reece

Run far.

Run fast.

You've set your price so stick with it. Every time I've went cheap I've regretted it. I won't even talk e-commerce for less that $4500 now.

Anyone who wants to go cheap with their e-commerce site doesn't really understand what goes into making an e-commerce site work and be secure. I guarantee that if you drop your price your client wont respect you more, and chances are you'll end up being angry with yourself.

All clients expect your costs to have a buffer in them [5-10%]. If he wanted to pay £1200 he'd have gone with that quote, he came back to you looking to save a little - anyone with any sense does it [I've never paid the full price at my local bike shop for instance].

tell them there is no way it can be done for £1200, say why, tell them what the extra money pays for, what is wrong with the current version [why so much needs changing] and finish with something along the lines of "given the nature of whats involved the minimum we can do that project for is £ .... ". If PayPal etc can be removed show where extra money can be saved.

Small companies aren't against paying, they just need the "why" part spelling out in plain english most of the time, after all they have to watch the money side very very closely - they are willing to spend time haggling if it reduces their costs, large compnaies aren't quite so bothered.

... or you could just spend an afternoon throwing a pre-install of OS Commerce together for $1200

"glass is half full"

Thanks for the feedback. I think I just needed others to confirm what I thought. I actually spent a fair amount of time writing a proposal, in which I did a site critique, explained what needed to change, what the legals were and what work was involved. I come from an IT banking background and am wondering if I was too professional and scared him off. But then again, maybe I should be after the bigger fish, who would expect such a proposal.

To be honest, I don't think he read the proposal; just looked at the quote.

Yes, I expected it to be too much, and yes, I expected to haggle. I'll give it another shot. But I keep hearing the same thing... beware small business.

I've got some work on at the moment, and other quotes out there. So maybe I should chill a bit. It's business!

I'm a big fan of open source, and looked into OS shopping cart solutions. IMO, OS Commerce, admirable as it is, is much too complex. It tries to replicate Amazon, and most customers have a small product range. I also delved into their forums.. far too many people fraking about being hacked. I couldn't sleep at night if I did a dirty OS Commerce install. Plus it would need regular updates.

Good point though.

Thanks again for your thoughts. Much appreciated.

Richard - thanks for cross posting over at newbusinessportal!

Have you seen http://www.shopify.com" title="http://www.shopify.com http://www.shopify.com ?

Standards-Compliant solution - hosted on their servers - you can point your dns to your store - and the commissions are fairly small. Quick and Easy.

If you do not do osCommerce installs, than you've answered your own question. osCommerce or estores is not a simple task, it generally requires a lot to fully setup. If you can come to agreement on bid than do so. Otherwise going half way down doesn't seem like a good idea given that any well constructed e-store, using third party service or not is generally expensive.

With osCommerce you'd have to have things secured with a SSL, and also may have to customize some product features depending on the type of store the client wants. In addition to gateway setup, it is complex. To do it right requires much work on it both design and coding, and a much higher price for that service.

I'm with Brandon on this, for the bid in hand, I'd use CCNOW.com, or a third party service that you have good reviews about. Paypal may have low fees, but it is sometimes a problem when they do not provide customer service. If your client is American, he/she may be in luck because Paypal is better handled in the US than elsewhere. Paypal is great when you are doing self-service, if there is an issue to resolve with Paypal generally they are not good at human responses. There are several other firms providing merchant accounts, and deal with creditcards...I think that is the best option for you.

Good luck.

By the way does this site have user/customer registration? If yes, that also requires SSL. A good SSL is about $1000.00 a year, Verisign (128).

Hi Aaron. Thought about the hosted solutions. I'd want to go for a UK version, I think, though they ten to cost about GBP20/month. Shopify is interesting. Thery charge 2-3% per transaction. Payment Providers & PayPal cost too, to process credit cards.. so it might seem cheaper in the short-term, but the customer pays heavily long term.

Adriana. Thanks for your thoughts. I, and the customer are happy to ditch PayPal. Credit/Debit Cards would be processed by Protx. This isn't an issue.

There is no customer log in, but it is still necessary to capture addresses and email, so I would insist on SSL. US$1,000 seems high. I can get GeoTrust certs. for £60/year. Any reason not to go with them?

Anyway, I'm over it now. Got feedback from a variety of forums, all saying the same thing. Happy to kick him into touch. The lesson for me, is to get a feel upfront about how much the customer is looking to spend, before investing time on a detailed proposal.

Cheers

p.s. Adriana.. love your work.. nice site!

I'm not going to repeat anyone else's comments other than to say that the best business tool we all have is our gut/hunches. Always go with your gut no matter what it says and you'll be a happy man safe in the knowledge that you think you made the right choice.

Hi,

<p>Thanks for the comments about my site.



I've never used GeoTrust, but you can always do some research into certificates before purchasing.

Cheers.
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